When we talk about Łódź, I believe that migration can potentially have a crucial significance. – says Dr Marcin Gońda – Head of  Centre of Migration Studies at the University of Lodz and member of the Łódź of Diversity Coalition – in a conversation with Piotr Rembowski – a human rights activist and member of the Łódź of Diversity Coalition – about the phenomenon of migration, opportunities for Łódź, and the diversity associated with it.

Piotr Rembowski: The Centre of Migration Studies at the University of Lodz was established in 2020 to holistically study migration phenomena, including local migration. Why then? Why not earlier? Was that the right time for such an institution to be established?

Marcin Gońda: I don't know whether the Center was created at the right time. Whether it was too late or too early. What I do know is that it was created in response to the diversification of Polish society. This is primarily due to the increasingly strong waves of immigration to Poland. There were individuals across various departments at the University of Lodz who had been dealing with migration issues from different perspectives, whether it was through legal regulations, sociological analyses of immigrant integration, or demographic processes such as changes in the ethnic structure of society. We decided that it was worthwhile for such a center to be established to integrate and undertake joint analyses in this area. Primarily, to conduct research, but also to have a stronger presence in the local community.

PR: Who would be the target audience for such research?

MG: I think that the authorities - whether regional or municipal - need expert input to assist them in developing appropriate policies regarding immigration. Of course, local governments don’t always make use of such assistance, nor are they always aware of it. On the other hand, we feel that after these few years, they are indeed increasingly trying to consider our expert opinion. Another aspect of the Centre is initiating intercultural dialogue.

PR: So, the Centre serves as an expert support area for understanding migration phenomena, especially locally. The third aspect you mentioned is intercultural dialogue. In 2020, the Centre also joined the Łódź of Diversity Coalition. What motivated this? Partnering with other experts? Offering your expert services?

MG: Łódź of Diversity Coalition is a coalition bringing together entities or individuals who are practitioners. Individuals who are actively working to promote diversity. They are people who have direct contact, for example, with migrants, marginalized individuals, or those experiencing discrimination. Whereas, we, as the Centre, aim to be, or at least see ourselves as, an expert voice. We want to truly provide expertise in the field of migration.

PR: We can talk about a combination of theory, expert voice, and practice, diversity and migrant advocacy. From an expert's point of view - how does migration affect us locally?

MG: When we talk about Łódź, I believe that migration can potentially have a crucial significance.  We know that Łódź, as a city or the Łódź region or voivodeship, is experiencing significant depopulation, simply shrinking in terms of population. Foreign immigration potentially could serve as a kind of remedy for this process. This is primarily because migrants are usually younger than the residents already living in a given area. They are a "valuable resource " that can improve this demographic situation. However, it must be emphasized that this cannot be a complete solution to all demographic issues. Various analyses suggest that these migrations would have to be truly numerous, very significant, even greater than they are now, to compensate for the deficiencies resulting from the aging local population.

PR: I believe that you mentioned the positives of this phenomenon. But can we talk about the negatives?

MG: On the other hand, uncontrolled immigration to the region wouldn’t be beneficial. It would, of course, be associated with potential tensions. The Coalition strives to look positively at this phenomenon. The expert perspective - not only in Poland but also in other countries - is often different. People simply fear immigrants for various reasons. Colloquially speaking - they are afraid that immigrants will take away their jobs, and they are also afraid of the dangers of cultural difference. I won't say whether this is true or not. Since immigration is happening - it's generally considered a positive phenomenon. In summary, in the context of Łódź, immigration is crucial, it's important. We, as the Centre for Migration Studies, but also as the Łódź of Diversity Coalition, should emphasize these positive aspects and counteract the negative ones, such as discrimination, while emphasizing the need for intercultural dialogue.

PR: Does migration supports the development of diversity? Emphasizing the good aspects, not forgetting the negative ones, counteracting the problems.

MG: For now, we mainly have immigration from Ukraine or from countries of the former Soviet Union, that are culturally and geographically close to us. People from these countries are somewhat similar to us and relatively quickly adapt to realities in Polish or Łódź. But once immigration is initiated, it will only deepen, so different people will come. From different, very distant places, completely different from us. We simply need to take certain actions for diversity and prepare people for it.

PR: Who should undertake such actions?

MG: It would be crucial for local authorities, whether municipal or regional, to listen to expert voices. So that they can adjust their actions to the changing reality. Immigration seems inevitable – in one form or another.

PR: A city of four cultures, a city of migration - it was established thanks to industrialists and workers from other cities, often countries, in the 18th or 19th century. Isn't it history repeating itself?

MG: Generally, cities are established in this way, with people migrating from neighboring or more distant areas. However, indeed, Łódź was special enough that these population influxes were controlled, after all, it was an administrative decision, then a tsarist one, because Łódź was in the Russian annexation. In a sense, yes, history is repeating itself, but these are different realities. Previously, it was people who, by coming here, "fuel" the city. Now they are people who will help "not lose" the distance to other big cities in Poland.

PR: Migration also happens to other cities.

MG: Yes! Migration is happening all over the country now. Łódź – it's not the main migration area. However, we often like to refer to the multicultural tradition of Łódź. The question remains – will we be able to take advantage of it and how will we approach it?

PR: So, listening to expert voices – both theorists and practitioners – will be important!

MG: Yes!

______________________________________________________

About the speakers:

Dr. Marcin Gońda - an assistant professor at the Faculty of Economics and Sociology at the University of Lodz, head of the Centre for Migration Studies at the University of Lodz, collaborates with the Centre of Migration Research at the University of Warsaw, leading numerous scientific projects related to migrant integration; a researcher of migration phenomena, including international migration, migration policies, and integration policies for migrants. A member of the Łódź of Diversity Coalition.

Piotr Rembowski - a student of International Relations at the Faculty of International and Political Studies at the University of Lodz, a member of the Centre for Migration Studies, and an activist in the Łódź of Diversity Coalition, advocating for human rights.